November, 2020
Parts 1 & 2
Part 1
Last week I shared several stories about food and kashrus; specifically relating to Ice Cream and Frozen Yogurt stores.
We ended with my assisting of a former assistant of mine –now a rav on his own of a community within the New York City area. His name is Rabbi Daniel Rosenfelt, and his shul is the Fleetwood Shul in Mount Vernon, NY, a beautiful tree-lined community just outside New Rochelle.
We explained how his area of the city has few kosher options –outside of the supermarket –so when the Indian owner of the local frozen yogurt shop approached him to see what it would take to make his store kosher he was ecstatic.
“How complicated would this be for me as the shtut rav to offer my certification to this store?” he asked.
Last week we explained how we discovered and got around an issue of tummas meis (of all things!) so to allow entrance inside this frozen yogurt store.
I concluded the column by stating: “As I entered the yogurt shop I saw something; something else that would throw a monkey-wrench into this rav’s ability to certify this store”.
Just what did I see?
Well, let me first start at the beginning.
When a rav hamchshir –in this case the local rav –first walks into a store he should view it as a riddle to be solved.
I remarked to Rabbi Rosenfelt, “Always imagine that there is a major issue, and you have to find it”.
The first question I asked the kind proprietor was, “Where do you store the food and your bulk ingredients”. Knowing the storing location is vital, for an owner shows the customer only that which he wishes them to see.
A storage area leaves little to the imagination.
Before going to a storeroom area, always bring a menu from said store. Everything on the menu should have a match, if it can’t be found this means it is stored somewhere else; or worse bought in small packages and put away from the rabbi’s view.
Once that is complete, one must discover when and from whome deliveries are. This is important information for a number of reasons. First, and just one example, knowing who a supplier is can tell the rav hamachshir if an ingredient under a generic label must always be checked. Certain restaurant supply chains change their manufactures frequently, so, say, a parve whip cream one month could be dairy (not cholov yisroel) the next, or not kosher at all –and all with very similar packaging.
The above is strongly suggested when it comes to factories a great tool; a mashgiach should collect all the ingredient panels from their packaging labels before checking the ingredients. This way he can then make sure that he has accounted for every single item listed on their own packaging as being in their product.
When I once made a bakery in a supermarket kosher and pas yisroel, I didn’t bother to check if they changed their computerized ingredient panel to reflect the new suppliers.
The first week they went kosher I had knocks on my door throughout Shabbos. It turned out that their bilkilach had on their ingredient panel ‘milk’ – as that was indeed in their old product! Of course, now they were parve –as was their oven –but I was impressed with carefulness of these consumers!
Once a rav hamachshir feels that all all ingredients have been accounted for, he can move on to various other issues.
It was at this latter stage when I saw the concern with which we opened this column.
Coming up from the basement to the main area I saw a large flattop cooking area.
It was here –we were informed – that they made crepes –a huge seller.
“Oh boy” I thought to myself, “this is not good”.
To understand my worry, a short halachik background is crucial.
The Shulchan Aruch rules (beginning of siman 112 in yoreh deah) that while some only eat pas yisroel, others are not as careful, especially in a place where no pas yisroel is available. The Rema adds that this lenient view is even activated in a place with freely available pas yisroel product – or even if one already has a pas yisroel product but would prefer the pas palter (see Badei Hashulchan ibid biurim for a discussion refarding the last statement).
The above lenient minhag –we should point out –is only true by bakers or stores, whereas a privately baked bread or bread-item by a non-Jew reminds forbidden for all (how to define these two catergories is beyond the scope of this week’s column).
Based on the above, many vaadim certify non pas yisroel products for the who eat them. (The issue of certifying something that the rav hamachshir himself would not eat for others–and if this is lfnei iver –will be bl’n returned to in a future column –see this writer’s article in Yarchon Ha’emek, Toronto, 5768).
Both the Shulchan Aruch and the Rema recognize an important distinction that now must be made.
Whereas some may allow the eating –and the giving hashgacha –of pas palter, no one would sanction eating or giving a hechasher to bishul akum.
It is therefore essential to establish which foods are considered baked –and therefore pas, and consequently have the potential to receive a hashgacha -, and which are considered halachikly as cooked –and therefore forbidden to be given a hashagacha (unless a frum person turned on the cooking devices).
In the examples given of which foods are considered baked and which food are cooked, the Rema even mentions ‘kichilach’!
The reader can pause reading for a moment, put down the magazine and try to create in their own minds how they would define these two terms.
Now, with this introduction to the issue, we can return to crepes.
Waffles, for example, are according to many poskim a baked item.
Therefore, a store that wishes to be certified can make and serve waffles even if cooked –or should I say baked –by a goy. While it will be labeled as pas palter, it still will be kosher (some poskim may disagree, and the reader is remnded that just because a store has a reliable hashgacha does not mean that his own rav will necessarily agree with all decisions).
But what about crepes? Would one consider those baked or cooked?
This is not a small question. This owner spent thousands on this flat top, and a not insignificant part of his business comes from the sale of crepes.
There was also another issue to figure out. Let us assume for a moment that a crepe is not considered a pas item but rather a cooked item. There are still options to allow the proprietor to serve it. A frum jew could come in every morning to turn it on –which is, of course, not so simple.
Next week I will continue this story with how these issues were resolved.
For now, let me end with the following.
I told this rav that the issue of the crepes is a serious one, and he should speak to a major posek. He should do so both for hadracha, and so he has a name he can quote should anyone question him.
I suggested a posek.
That week he called to inform me that while he spoke to the suggested posek –and had a wonderful first conversation –the posek said he wanted to think about the crepe issue a little more and that he would get back to him in a day or so.
“It has been three days, and now he is not returning my calls” he explained to me.
This seemed odd.
This posek understood that time was of the essence in this case.
We are always told to judge everyone l’zechus, sometimes we forget that our leaders are included in the above rule.
Ten minutes after that phone call, my wife texted me.
You see the posek recommended was none other than Rav Gissinger from Lakewood, who had advised many kashrus agencies –especially the Kof-K.
The text said he was just niftar.
Instead of wondering why he didn’t call back, we were both now amazed that in his last days of his illness he took a call from a small –town rav. More, he hoped to have the time to think more about the issue.
Next week I will share what Rav Gissinger was able to share on that first phone call and how this issue here –and in other similar establishments –was resolved.
To Be Continued iy’H…
Part 2
This week, like last week, I will begin with a perhaps apocryphal story.
Rav Chaim Ozer Grodzinski (d. 1940) was known as a unique iloy among gedolim. While we have all heard stories of genius about our leaders, Rav Chaim Ozer was in a league of his own. I recall as a child hearing that he was able to write two teshuvos in halacha, at the same time and with two different hands, while on the phone and also answering a shailah being asked in person. Of course this is an exaggeration (as he also did not have a phone on his office!) but they do not say such stories about anyone but him.
During one of the first Agudah conventions Rav Chaim Ozer was staying in a hotel under a pseudonym. He was understandably exhausted after a long journey and needed the time and space to consider the many decisions that were facing the klal.
However, a determined young yeshiva bachur did not wish to allow an opportunity to meet this gadol b’torah slip by him, and was able to discover where he was staying.
The young man knocked on his door. Rav Chaim Ozer knew that he could not simply send this young man away, and asked him to be brief.
“I just wish to discuss a sugya” said the young man.
“On what topic?” asked the gadol hador.
“Hilchos berachos” the bachur replied.
Rav Chaim Ozer responded, “I just came from a very long journey. Please, choose another sugya other than hilchos berachos”.
I always share this story with the balla battim in my shul, as it best illustrates how complex these particuler laws are, even to a great iloy like Rav Chaim Ozer.
All the more complicated when writing a brief article that touches on many of these issues –the reader is now warned!
Several years ago I had to take a trip for the vaad to Bangor, Main. There was a company that we certify who had purchased several blueberry farms as well as a manufacturing facility. They wanted to pick, wash, and freeze the blueberries and then sell them to companies with our certification. Although this was pretty much an innocuous enterprise in terms of kashrus, we needed to make an initial inspection at this facility to make sure that what they had described was in fact what they were doing. In addition, there is a minor bug issue with blueberries and I wanted to make sure that before our imprimatur went on any packaging that I was confident that their ‘quality control’ had a system to seek, find and eliminate any infestation. Lastly, we had to verify that the equipment they were using, if bought already used, was cleared from any cross-contamination.
While the above reasons were enough to justify this trip, I did have another, personal, reason for wanting to go. For a number of generations there has been some debate as to what the proper beracha is for blueberries, as the issue of what is considered a pri etz and what is a pri adamai brings one into a thicket of opinions.
There are many indicators that could help determine the appropriate beracha of a fruit or vegetable (for a complete list of criteria, as well as the many differing views regarding them, see V’sen Beracha by Rabbi Bodner pages 422-423). The most critical information needed for this determination in the eyes of halacha is to know if its tree or bushel –roots and trunk (or shoot) – remain alive from year to year. The strawberry plant and the banana tree whose roots remain alive during the winter whereas its visible portion dies off during the winter would then require a haodama (cf. the opinion of Rosh and Rabeinu Tam who believe that the fact that the underground roots stay alive would suffice and would therefore actually require that a haeitz be made. Due to their opinion if one accidently made a haeitz on a banana he fulfills his obligation).
Now, the custom (see Igros Moshe, orach chaim 1:85; Mishna Berrura siman 203:3) is to make a hadamo on all berries, regardless if its roots and stems last from year to year, so long as they grow under three tefachim in height (between 9-11 inches) so the next step was to determine the height of the bushels on which blueberries grow.
To my surprise, in every one of the blueberry fields I inspected the bushels were very low-lying; meaning their beracha would be a hadoma. Interestingly most modern sefarim (see the wonderful The Laws Of Berachos, Rabbi Forst, page 282) assume that the blueberries we eat today grow on tall tree-like bushes. While it may be true that most commercially sold blueberries is of the “high-bush” variety (haeitz), as just demonstrated this is not always the case and one should check with their rav as to the final halacha.
Over the last few weeks I shared a story of one frozen yogurt shop that I rav friend of mine wished to certify. We shared all the complexities involved –from, of all things, tumas meis, to strange and questionable toppings.
Last week we ended with a shaila that he posed to Rav Gissinger the week of his pertira about crêpes –and if these items are considered pas akum (allowing the rav to certify them without turning on the stovetop) or bishul akum (which would demand that they turn on the ovens each and every day!).
Let us continue from there.
I often share in shiurim that there is no such thing as a pure chumra or a kula, rather, and only, consistency.
Crêpes is a great example of this.
In one of the most confounding simanin in Shulchan Aruch (orach chaim, 168) we are explained what makes an item hamotzi, mezonos and all points in-between. The popular questions of croutons, pizza, and washing for a shul kiddush are all to be found here.
So imagine you go to your rav and explain that you wish to eat several delicious crêpes for breakfast. The halacha is that for most mezonos items, should one be koveah seudah (have it as their meal) they would need to wash and bentch (ibid sif 6). When it comes to crêpes one would like to be told by their rav that they need not worry because crêpes are to be considered a cooked item.
Most ‘cooked’ items that are mezonos do not require hamotzi and benthcing even when eaten as a meal (e.g. pasta). Even though it may be cooked through heat, depending on the thinness of the batter, or how it was or was not kneaded could impact this halacha greatly.
Ah, but here is the catch. Should a rav pasken that bentching is never required for crêpes may cause the petitioner to think that they received a kula; but it is in reality also a chumra –because now a restaurant that wishes to serve crêpes needs to worry about bishul akum –as it is no longer considered a pas palter product! (See Magen Avraham ad loc, 40 and 41; and from a conversation with Rav Binyamin Cohen of Yeshivas Rabbeinu Chaim Berlin and the author of the famed Chelkas Binyamin on these halachos who shared with this writer that indeed the poskim tie these two halachos –berachos and bishul/pas akum – together).
Indeed, many hold that thing blintzes, and likely crêpes are indeed mezonos always, even if one is koveah seuda on them (see Magen Avraham ibid, Be’er Heitiv 34, and Mishneh Berrura 38, et al).
The above would then mean that this frozen yogurt shop would need to have their oven turned on daily by a shomer Shabbos!
In fact, when Triscuits became certified by the OU the question was posed if such items would require washing and bentching if enough were eaten. Furthermore, would the OU need to turn on the oven each day? Now we understand how both of these questions are related to each other!
Rav Belsky and, lhb’ch’lch Rav Shachter disagreed on the matter, however, and for differing reasons, agreed that whether due to it not being kneaded or to it being considered a mere ‘biscuit’ one would never bentch on it (the OU website also directs the reader to see Shu’t Shoel U’meishiv, telisa 230 to understand why they do not demand a mashgiach turn on their ovens).
There is a lot more we can talk about – like if a vaad hakashrus should allow ‘glow lights’ in cases such as these when it may be a question of bishul akum.
But for now, I hope, the reader has a headache, and better understands the complexities of the world of kashrus and halacha.
Shul Chronicles 
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