An Interview with Professor Joe Regenstein

Cornell Professor on ‘Kosher’

September, 2012

When I began my work in Kashrus, one of the names I heard quoted often was that of Professor Joe Regenstein. A professor emeritus at the prestigious, ‘Ivy League’, Cornell University, he offers the only accredited course on Kosher in the country.

He is often seen seated quietly in the corner of a meeting of heads of major Kashrus organizations, taking everything in.

Over the years, I have turned to him for advice and for his expertise. For this year’s Ami Kosher issue, I wish to present him to the reader

Thank you for taking the time to talk! I understand that you are in Chicago celebrating a granddaughter’s bas mitzvah. Mazel Tov!

Please let the reader know your official job,  title and your educational background

I am a professor emeritus in the Department of Food Science. I received a B.A. in chemistry from Cornell`s College of Arts and Sciences, an MS in dairy chemistry from CALS, and a PhD in biophysics from Brandeis University. I am the head of of Cornell Halel and Kosher initiative, and member of their Jewish studies program. Aside for government and Kashrus agencies I work with a slew of food agencies. In fact, I have even worked for Ami before! I refer however to AMI (American Meat Institute).

What is the Cornell Halel and Kosher Initiative?

Now that is a reasonable question! It is an effort where together with my colleagues, we provide research and educational outreach. We are a land grant for New York.  This is an 1865 program to serve as outreach in agriculture and the world beyond campus.

May I ask what your Jewish background is?

I grew up in New Jersey. My mother came from an Orthodox family. My father was raised culturally Jewish. He was trained of butcher. I was raised in a home where Butchery was discussed. One day my father was sick, when I was about two, and he was home and asked to meet the Kosher butcher. To his shock, he discovered that this particular butcher was purchasing trief meat! Sadly, that was the end of our kosher home. But my mother still wanted me to know about kosher even though we did not practice it. But later, together with my wife- who came from a kosher home – we decided to keep a kosher home.

How did you come to teaching a course at Cornell on Kosher law?

I was teaching a course on the slaughter of fish and poultry and a professor came to give a class on kosher slaughter. And, as a Jew who was keeping a kosher home, I found this to be fascinating. Half the class was made up of farm boys who might never knowingly even met a Jew!  After commenting on my interest in this subject to the professor, he suggested that I give this class the next year. This was before I was tenured. Eventfully, I went on to write an article for Food Technology, a monthly journal read across the industry, that explained kosher to the food industry and academic food science world.

Rabbi Lipshitz [now of the NK, based in Monsey] was at the time the head of the OU and was also a peer reviewer for this journal.

Anyway, the article was soon published and Rabbi Wikler, who started Kashrus Magazine, strongly recommended my article as a way to explain Kashrus to the unaffiliated or to a gentile.

What Year was this?

1978

What does you course at Cornell focus on?

The course is on Kosher and Halal, but the bulk is about kosher law. Kosher law is simply more intricate than Halal. My Kansas State class s a two-credit class, and at Cornell it is three-credit.

How often to you get to sit in on Kashrus meetings with the Rabbanim and major organizations?

I try to go as often as I can. I don’t have the time always. Lately the focus of rabbanim has been dedicated to defending shechita in Europe, an important issue.

Have you noticed any trends, or changes since 1978?

When I started the policy was to keep kosher law close to our vest. Now many agencies recognize that when a gentile makes a mistake in his factory that effects kosher law it is often due to lack of knowledge. So, the more information a certifying rabbi can provide will only help the process, to catch potential errors quicker. This is a major change from years ago, and a positive one.

What is the greatest misconception that you have found your college students have about Kashrus?

Greatest misconception? That’s an easy one, That kosher means the rabbi makes a blessing! I beat them over the head about this issue. I also give a one hour talk all over the world on Kashrus and the first thing I teach is that this kosher is an exhaustive audit and not a blessing. It is about following the rules. And how do you convince the world that you follow the rules? You have rabbi certify your company. It is as simple as that.

Are you audience’s impressed by what you teach them about Kashrus?

They are certainly surprised at the complexity of it all. Who would not be?

Even as a rav hamachshir I sometimes hear complaints of kashrus being Kosher Tax. This is an old anti-Semitic canard.  I would imagine you have rune into this.

I have had to deal with that occasionally. I point out, and always say, especially in my one hour talks –that this is a business decision that individual companies make. Unless your company is making more money from becoming Kosher, then don’t do it. Of course, I do explain, that for, say, a frum business owner, he indeed may do it at a loss. But generally smart people can easily have it explained that Kashrus works with incremental sales, all your fixed costs are absorbed, and eventually there will be significant gains that will offset any small initial cost/loss.

Other than the kosher tax, and the blessing misconception, what other fallacies exist regarding Kosher?

Well there is this false two-fold assumption one sees. 1) not stunning an animal before slaughter is always worse for the animal [stunning animals before shechita –something Halacha disallows-has been tried to be forced upon Jews since the 1860’s and has succeeded still today ion some countries, such as Switzerland. American Jews are protected by these threats by the Humane Slaughter act of 1958] , and B) many ‘intellectuals’ find it difficult to accept that something developed 3000 years ago, and without the help of enlightened Europeans, can’t be of any real value.

How do you respond to attacks on kosher slaughter?

Temple Grandin [perhaps the most esteemed and famous animal scientist in the world –books and films have been made about her life] who few can dispute says that when she observed shechita done correctly she was very clamed and relieved.

Have you worked wit Temple Grandin?

Sure! We have even published together. We even designed a small scale slaughtering pen together.

What books to you and your students use for your courses? Certainly you all don’t open a Shulchan Aruch!

Rabbo Zushe Blech’s “Kosher Food Production”

As an objective observer, what should the kosher consumer be made aware of?

 They to learn which symbols are truly reliable, and why. They should all be reading kashrus magazines and articles, checking for recalls, etc. It’s a

Any area of change and need of improvement that you would suggest to us in Kashrus?

Labeling of food products should have POSITIVE labeling, in my humble opinion; such as Pareve and DE (dairy equipment).  I know this a controversial issue, but there should be one common rule across the reliable agencies so as to ‘un-confuse’ the costumer.

Every product should have something next to the kosher symbol, ‘N’ for neutral/parve; ‘P’ for Passover, etc. No product should just have a symbol alone. We would thereby cut down on mislabeling.

Do you think the government’s involvement in Kosher law in some states is a positive development ?

Well, yes. Truth in labeling is what matters and must be consistent. The governed has the power to protect the Kosher consumer in this regard.

What do you think will be the biggest change we will see in Kashrus in the next decade or so?:

Interesting.  I would watch carefully the field of biotechnology. I had the honor of giving the first talk to rabbanim on this issue. This is going to make big changes in a lot of things, interesting questions.

Please offer the reader a little tease as to some of these issues

Well, genetic manipulation now seems acceptable, but lipase –an enzyme that could come from a non-kosher animal source and is used in many food areas –is now a big issue.

Has your teaching influenced Cornell in any way?

The Cornell dairy plant is the only college dairy plant under kashrus, the OU. All of our ice cream and sour cream, and soft dairies, are certified.

What can we let readers know about the rabbis you have met in the Kosher industry?

I am always impressed the amount of work and information they need to have. Equipment knowledge, ingredients, technology. There are rabbis in the kosher industry who have dedicated decades just to piping.

Has the globalization of the food supply been met by the kosher community?

 Yes! I was by a ingredient show in China-of all places- and four major hechsheinm had booths! Some of these kosher booths were even staffed with employees representing them that spoke Chinese!

Thank you for your time

My pleasure. Not only am I familiar with Ami Magazine, but it used to be printed in Ithaca (the home of Cornell)!