Tag: vegan

  • Vegan Restaurants: A Kashrus Minefield

    March, 2022

        Last week we discussed the halachos and hashkafos of being vegan. While most readers are not contemplating such a move, there is one area that has become a popular issue to be brought up to rabbanim, especially in New York City.

        Often, it’s the kosher certification agencies that are known to not follow modern kashrus policies (policies created due to new realities) that certify vegan restaurants in the city (many vegan establishments are indeed under good certifications, that follow modern protocols; I’m referring to one’s that are not and do not).

            However, some people will go to these establishments anyway. When I ask why, they either explain that they accept that hashgacha, which is their choice, or more commonly, they will say, “Rabbi, it is vegan! What could be the issue! This teudah should certainly be enough for such a place!” I’ve heard this argument from otherwise very smart and frum people.

           While I am not here to say which hashgacha a person should accept, I can say that such an argument is absurd, or better said, not fully thought out.

           First, let me share a story or two.

        When I was a rav in Buffalo, the dream was to create a sit-down kosher restaurant. While we had several food options -a meat deli, a JCC dairy takeout, a university cafeteria, and various caterers -a real, tabled restaurant would be the mark of a stable and secure community. But to support such a venture a town needs one of two things: either a critical mass of frum people that will keep it in business every night of the week (which we did not have), or, a restaurant that would appeal to non-Jews as well.

           Growing up in Toronto, whenever we would drive to New York to bake matzos for Pesach, we would stop in (my future home!) the Young Israel of Buffalo for shacharis, and then head off to Bakerman’s for breakfast. It was a classic donuts and bagel all day ‘breakfast’ spot. True Americana, and the perfect restaurant for an out-of-town city like Buffalo, catering mostly to non-Jews yet under the hashgacha of the local vaad (run then by the stupendous Rav Yirmiyahu Kaganoff).

    It was there where I tried my first tuna melt, as well as first heard such terms as ‘over easy’.

          Several years into the venture, the mashgiach noticed that the first batch of donuts were being sold less than an hour from opening. This was suspicious, as he had to be the one to turn on all cooking equipment, and fryers take time to heat up.

          It was the late 1980’s or early 90’s, and when he shared this information with the rabbi, his only option was to purchase a camcorder and follow the owner. (Why not use a PI? For one thing, at such late-stage suspicions, immediate confrontation is apt, as being caught red-handed by the rabbi deflates excuses, even when one’s livelihood is, sadly, on the line. Secondly, this issue arose due to putting matters into non-rabbinic hands; to investigate by those very means seems peculiar).


    The next morning, the rabbi – parked outside the non-Jewish owner’s house since the crack of dawn – began following the owners car to the store. However, the owner didn’t go toward the store! Instead, the rabbi followed him to a warehouse we they picked up their first batch of very-non-kosher donuts -ready to sell before his regular donuts could be fried. (The reader should note that off-site frying is becoming the norm, and even your local Dunkin likely does not fry their own donuts).

         Suffice it to say, they lost their hashgacha.

            Next story:

           Fast forward fifteen years, and now I sit at Rav Kaganoff’s desk. We are approached by the owner of a large Indian restaurant. His restaurant took up a huge modern building, was centrally located, and all VEGAN!

    What he was missing was more customers, and he called our office to see if going kosher would be feasible.

         This was a gift! What a boon this could be for the community! What a hero I would be if I could make this happen!

       I suggested we meet at the actual restaurant so that I may see the lay of the land etc. We agreed to meet there before he opened the next morning.

         I arrived at the designated time and waited in the empty lot for the owner to arrive. I called his cell phone to no avail. After close to two hours, I wondered if he lived i the top floor, as this was a huge building. Maybe he is inside waiting for me. I knock. No answer. Maybe he is in a back office, I think. I turn the knob and the door swings open. It was gorgeous inside, with high ceilings, and with the entire space used for an oppulant eastern design. He certainly didn’t live there.

    I walked alone throughout the large restaurant, to the back offices. No one is there.

    “They just leave their store open all night?!” I wonder to myslef.

    In the kitchen, I go through some of their products. Many of them would seem ‘vegan’ to many, but are certainly not. Stearates and Caseins and other ingredients abound in their packaged, dried, and canned goods. I found at least ten products that have ingredients derived from meat!

        Finally, after an hour of my perusal -and thre hours of waiting total- the owner shows up.

    No apology.

    Not a word.

    Rather, he sat down and demanded I join him.

    “Ok, Rabbi, so we are already vegan, tat means we are kosher. So why don’t we make a deal that you come here for free once a month with your family and in exchange you give a sign that says we are kosher”!

        I wasn’t sure if he was joking or not. “Well, first of all, your security is awful. Secondly, I perused your products and many are problematic to kosher and to your vegan customers. In addition, we have the issue of bugs. This is not to mention….

        He cut me off.

         “Rabbi. I did not come to my own store to hear you lecture me. My brother owns three vegan restaurants in Manhattan. I know exactly what kosher is…”

         I extended my hand, got up, then turned around and left -not saying another word then, nor speaking to him ever again.

    Because:

    He Lacked Humility:

    If a proprietor behaves like this now -when courting an ‘investor’, as it were – and is also unwilling to invest in learning, in growing, and improving, then no amount of training, no number of security measures, no level of mashgichim could ever mitigate the inevitable implosion.

    It would be doomed to fail from the start. Worse, I would be at fault for letting him through the proverbial door when i saw the warning signs.

            It’s a funny thing. The fact that I’ve ver pulled my certification from any factory, company, or restaurant causes the simple to assume this is a sign of weakness, or of my not taking kashrus seriously enough. In truth, it proves the opposite. Eighty-percent of the real kosher security is done before shaking hands. I said “No” more often than “Yes”. When one looks for honesty and humility then he will rarely if ever be let down. That is the reason I never had to pull my kosher certification!

    These stories did not even touch upon the most severe issue relating to vegan restaurants.

         Bishul Akum.

            A simple eggplant -a vegetable that one can’t eat raw -can treif up all the dishes in a ‘vegan’ kitchen! A can of veggies from the wrong company (depending on how and when they cook it) -like asparagus -will do the same. Without a set-up for deliveries and a mashgiach, it is, in many ways, the vegan restaurant that scares me the most. That is when one’s guard could be down, that is where new ingredients and products are tried the most often, and that is where critical kashrus errors happen -by accident or with malice.

            The above is not a comment on any particular vegan facility, rather for the reader top understand why major kashrus agencies have increased and changed their standards over the years.

       May Hashem protect us from michshol!

  • Vegans, Vegetarians, and Sensitivity

    See alos the post titled, “Judaism and Veganism”

       March, 2022    

    Almost all complaints I have received for something I’ve said -say, during a drasha – was about words perceived or inferred as being political. I once said before an election, “We have a moral obligation to vote” which someone understood as a push for a party that is professed to focus on ‘morals’.

          A pulpit rabbi must be careful not to even give the appearance that he is letting his politics and general worldviews cloud his role as a posek and leader. All it takes is one unnecessary statement -unrelated to Torah -and one can turn someone off for years.

          This was certainly true during Covid where there are passionate views on all sides which sometimes irrevocably destroy family and shul dynamics.

        However, in more intimate settings this can be tricker to avoid, and it is where a rav must use extreme caution, e.g. a walk home from shul, or guests by a Shabbos seudah.

             The conversation-not to mention wine–is flowing, and a deeper connection is being sought on both ends. It is during these moments that people will feel comfortable asking for my opinion on matters not necessarily related to Torah, or even hashkafa; topics I would generally avoid unless in a shiur setting.

             A relaxing seudah is not a senate hearing; I can’t answer every question with a ‘No comment’, or, ‘On the advice of counsel, I plead the fifth’ for the entirety of the meal!

           Recently, we noticed a guest who was hardly eating. While I would never point this out, the guest herself must have felt awkward, and so shared that she is a vegan -abstaining not just from all meat, poultry and fish, but also eggs, milk, etc.

        My Shabbos table might be considered a vegan’s worst nightmare. While my wife makes wonderful salads and exquisite deserts, one can’t avoid homemade ptcha, gribbeness, and even the shmaltz I make to shmear on my challah, etc. I may have personally caused the inflated price of oil this year!

         Before I continue, I would urge that guests always make their hosts aware of this, or any food allergies, before Shabbos. Far from being intrusive, it aids one’s hosts in making sure the guest will enjoy  their food and company.

         Growing up in the 80’s I was almost alone in my peanut allergy and learnt the hard way to always share my allergy before the host begins their preparations. Sometimes, even that didn’t work back when food allergies were rare. Once I was eating a desert at a friend’s home when I realized there was a distinct peanut taste in the desert. The mother said, “Oy! You’re also allergic to peanut butter?”!!

        I did not aim to initiate a discussion on my guest’s dietary choice. However, she then sincerely asked me what I thought of her food ethics. And, as a rabbi, continued to ask of me, “Do you think this is an issue in halacha?”

       Now, like the reader, I too have personal opinions on this matter. But my job as a rabbi is not to be a part of the legislative branch (who makes the rules) -that ended with chazal -rather to be a representative of the judicial branch; seeking simply to understand and then share the words of our mesorah as handed down to us.

          So what did I share with this guest?

            To be sure, we are all rachmanim bnei rachmanim, and we may not cause avert, needless and senseless pain to any of Hashem’s creatures. Rav Moshe Feinstein even writes that when we kill even a bug it must only be for a need, and even then, we should not do so directly (shu’t Igros Moshe, choshen mishpat, 2:47). People who make this diet choice for the above moral reason do not only mean well, but we have what to learn from them. Nevertheless, certain hashkafa and world realties must sometimes be made clear.

          Often one has medical or dietary reasons for such a choice. By the mitzvah of the nazir, the pasuk states “…and he shall atone…” (Bamidbar 6:11). To this, a bereissa wonders, “Rabbi Elazar HaKafar b’rebbe asked ‘In what way did this person sin?  He afflicted himself by abstaining from wine! From this one can make a kal v’chomer: just as this person who afflicted himself by abstaining only from wine is nevertheless called a sinner, one who afflicts himself by abstaining from everything [through fasting -Rashi] all the more so is he as well described as a sinner’” (Bava Kama 91b, Taanis 11, Nazir 19).

         Does this mean one can never choose on their own to abstain from a particular food item? Rav Moshe Feinstein was asked if there is any issue in restricting food to lose weight for cosmetic reasons. He proves that so long as one is doing so for another enjoyment -e.g., to feel healthy -then there is no concern in abstaining. Rav Moshe does however warn that making oneself stam hungry -by not eating anything for long periods of time – is something that at times should be avoided unless there is a particular need (shu’t Ig’m, ibid. #47, last paragraph).

          So then, if someone is just personally ‘grossed-out’ by animal flesh, there is no concern in abstaining. However, if one informs me that they think killing/eating animals is morally wrong, we have the obligation to share certain information, if they are sincere and willing to learn. Of course, hashkafa at first may seem to find some area of agreement. Only after the mabul were we allowed to eat meat. Ramban goes as far as to say that our current state is the unnatural one, and by zman moshiach -Yeshayahu 65:25, et al. -will be the returning to the natural order of even animals not harming each other. However, to state that what Hashem and the Torah now sanction -and indeed sanctifies by way of kodshim –is something ‘immoral’ can’t be tolerated as a Torah worldview.

           Academics -and I have hosted many -especially those who are not-yet-frum will start pushing back on this, challenging me in the name of famed vegan philosopher Peter Singer that there is no way to morally justify killing animals for our pleasure, and since we know Hashem anyway desires a world like that one day, what would be wrong from abstaining for this reason.

         To this, I gently remind them of two important points. First, virtue can never be tied to a specific epoch. Real virtue must be accessible in every generation and in all circumstances. Just because someone in 2022 of even modest wealth can afford and find many options to eat a healthy diet -with protein- without consuming meat, doesn’t make it true for someone in other times and places. Does one believe we would be here today without meat? There were no Impossible Burgers -or even large vegetable sections -in the shtetle, and on the many fields of battle that give us the bounty we now enjoy.

          But secondly, there is a larger point to consider. When I eat a steak, one animal died. But when one chooses a salad instead, they have caused the death of untold thousands of living creatures! For produce to grow, pesticides and even animals are used to kill bugs, vermin, and even mammals from destroying one’s crops. Then, when the fruit or vegetable is ready to be harvested, millions more of living things are killed when the tractors roll threw to suck up the potato you are now eating. And then, when you finally buy and make your animal-killing salad, one is either chalila eating or hopefully removing even more living things. I then end with a joke to lighten the mood. “Caesar Salad can indeed be a great source of protein!”

        Maybe this is why they chose the name ‘Impossible Burger’, for there is simply no way not to cause the death of living things no matter how ‘pure’ our diet chooses may be. It is, in fact, ‘impossible’.

          The Aruch Hashulchan alludes to this when he points out that even a walk in a woody area in the summertime likely results in our swallowing countless living organisms! (See there why this would not be a halachic concern).

         All the above leads to a question many rabbanim have been getting of late. “Why can’t I eat at vegetarian restaurants with questionable hashgachos? After all, what really could be the issue?”

         To be discussed iy’H next week.

  • Judaism and Veganism

    See also the following posts:

    “Vegans, Vegetarians, and Sensitivity”

    “Vegan Restaurants: A Kashrus Minefield”

    Society will always be judged by history by how they reacted to their own major events.

    How did Germany react to the rise of Hitler?

    How did Bush and America respond to 9-11?

    Enter a new question for the history books that, in my judgment, will go down as marking a red-letter day when leftist culture had officially taken over the American milieu:

    How did America react to the Cincinnati Zoo gorilla incident?

    As we approach that day’s one-year anniversary, let me first catch the reader up to speed: In May of 2016, a mother of small children went to the zoo. Her three-year-old asked if he could get a closer look at the gorilla. Of course, the mother was heard saying ‘No!’.

    Focusing for a moment on the other children in her entourage was all it took for the 3-year-old to somehow climb over the fence and fall into the gorilla enclave.

    Zookeepers rushed to the now the screaming crowd and saw the 450 pound gorilla, named Harambe, holding the child.

    They promptly shot the gorilla.

    My reaction upon hearing this was not just of relief, but that this incident finally answered a nagging question I always had about how prepared the zoo keepers are for such an emergency. I was not just in obvious agreement with their decision, but also impressed.

    To quote then candidate Donald Trump: “The way he held that child, it was almost like a mother holding a baby … It was so beautiful to watch that powerful, almost 500-pound gorilla, the way he dealt with that little boy. But it just takes one second … one little flick of his finger.”

    Parenthetically, now a year later, his reaction to this incident may give more away about our president’s approach to foreign policy than simply about animal protection.

    But many disagreed. Animal Rights activists and common citizens were oddly up in arms about this. Aside for the frightening death threats against this boy’s mother, the zoo also was attacked.

    Their concerns were so far removed from common-sense that one wonders how quickly some, and our culture, are becoming unhinged from basic social mores.

    In fact, in a time when the holder of the White House was thought by some to be potentially sympathetic to their cause, five-hundred thousand people signed the following petition on the government’s website (emphasis mine):

    “The zoo made the last-resort decision to shoot Harambe because of the increased risk of aggression if a tranquilizer was used in such close proximity to a human. This heartbreaking decision was made in the best interests of keeping the child and the public safe. This beautiful gorilla lost his life because the boy’s parents did not keep a closer watch on the child. We the undersigned believe that the child would not have been able to enter the enclosure under proper parental supervision. Witnesses claim that they heard the child state that he wished to go into the enclosure and was actively trying to breach the barriers. This should have prompted the parents to immediately remove the child from the vicinity. It is believed that the situation was caused by parental negligence and the zoo is not responsible for the child’s injuries and possible trauma. We the undersigned want the parents to be held accountable for the lack of supervision and negligence that caused Harambe to lose his life. We the undersigned feel the child’s safety is paramount in this situation. We believe that this negligence may be reflective of the child’s home situation. We the undersigned actively encourage an investigation of the child’s home environment in the interests of protecting the child and his siblings from further incidents of parental negligence that may result in serious bodily harm or even death.”

    Some people wished to compare this incident to the case of a three-year-old fifteen years ago outside Chicago where a gorilla held the fallen boy until helped arrived. However, that case was far different, as the child then was unconscious and there was no fear of sudden movements, yelling and confusion –all of which could have led the gorilla to change his calm demeanor.

    It may of interest to note that chazal in the beginning of Bava Kama teach that there is a distinction in the punitive perspective toward the animal that harms another animal and the animal that harms a human. Rashi, in his second explanation, explains that a human is harder to harm due to its distinct mazel. I imagine many in the outside world would bristle at such a view.

    I was reminded of this story, and its anniversary, when I was asked the other day what the Torah’s view is on vegetarianism. In fact, this is a question that rabbanim get with some frequency.

    I was once asked by someone –a wonderful man who would identify himself as someone with strong ties to leftist academia- if he may halachikly abstain from meat consumption. I responded, “You can be a vegetarian on one condition”. He listened intently as I revealed the one rule he was to follow. “You may not tell anyone that you are a vegetarian”.

    He laughed because he understood my point. Too often those that accept meta-ethics upon themselves do so, consciously or otherwise, to feel superior. For some (and, of course, we are excluding those who refrain from meat due to health reason or the like), excluding them from advertising their life-choices would be to cut their desire at its knees.

    Suffice it to say that while there is possibly no halachik concern with being a vegetarian (perhaps even on yom tov when some hold one has a mitzvah to eat meat–see Chullin 11b and siman 529 with commentaries), why one chooses to do so not only makes a difference in halacha but in hashkafa as well. Should one feel he is superior to other Jews, or to halacha, or to R’l Hashem and his Torah then it would not only be likely forbidden but if allowed would risk changing the landscape of the petitioner’s entire prism of Torah-based morality.

    However, we must also be careful to maintain a balance here, as well as to be cognizant of the Torah’s own ethics toward animals.

    The gemara lists those from our historical past who were destined to be moshiach had we earned it, or are the exemplar of the middos of the future moshiach (based on the two explanations to this gemara found in Rashi). It also lists someone from their own generation, still alive, that either was to be moshiach should they earn it or who was an exemplar of such middos. The person in the latter category so named was none other than Rebbe Yehudah Hanassi.

    Rashi explains that one of the reasons he was chosen as moshiach was because of an incident he was involved in that caused him to suffer throughout his life.

    Rebbe Yehudah Hanasi was passing by a slaughter house when a cow came over to him and pleaded to be saved from death/shechitah. Rebbe Yehudah Hanasi responded to the cow, “lech! sh’lekach notzarta!” –Go! For this is why you were created!

    What did he say wrong? After all, don’t we all eat meat? The mistake he made was in defining an animal’s sole existence as that of for food and slaughter. Do we not use cows for plowing, for fertilizer, etc.? Do they not serve purposes beyond human needs, adding and playing a part in the brilliant cyclical ecosystem and bionetwork that we all live in?

    For this error he suffered many years.

    Indeed, Sefer Chasidim is cited as having remarked that we are allowed to eat meat because they also give us the parchment necessary to write our Torah and our Teffilin!

    Of course there is no doubt that the yiddeshkeit places a high value on all animal life, and even when it comes to how one treats animals we have been way ahead of the curve –having dealt with these serious issues long before the world was awoken to them. Furthermore, in a perfect world we too would abstain from meat, as was in the days before Noach.

    But the anniversary of these events in Cincinnati remind us why Hashem felt it necessary to have us eat meat –so as not to compare ourselves to just another animal in the animal kingdom, a thought process that slowly led to humanity deserving of the mabul.

    Now –more so than ever –we need this reminder.

    The Ramban explains Yeshayahu 11:6 – “The wolf shall lie with the lamb” – as not a miracle of the days of moshiach but rather as a return to the true nature of old. However, we mustn’t act like the bnei Ephraim, forcing this future world upon a world not ready.

    Let us hope for those days to come when we are worthy, and not for the chaos of brought by forcing such holy nature before its time.